Saturday, May 1, 2021

If the War hadn't started until December 1941, would it?

Probably not...

Or at least not in the version that we know.

The naval balance of power, let alone other forces, in December 1941 just wouldn't have allowed the same sides to form.

But that needs some explanation.

When I started to draft this article, I realised I needed to do some background, and it actually led to 5 'preview' articles that can be accessed in this blog.

1. Defining a battleship.

2. Effective Re-Builds of WWI battleships.

3. If War had started December 1941, Part 1 - Battleships

4. If War had started December 1941, Part 2 - Aircraft Carriers

5. If War had started December 1941, Part 3 - Naval Balance of Power

You are welcome to read them all to follow the reasoning of this article. (And I would welcome comments and any extra information that people might have... the field is vast, and I keep finding minor corrections or additions to much of the available information.)

But the conclusion is simple.

If Britain, France, and Germany had not gone to war in 1939 (and Italy in 1940), and all had continued their building programs to December 1941, then a later start to WWII would simply not have seen Germany, Japan and Italy as allies.

Let's explore that.

First I will restate the summary of my last article on Naval Power Summary December 1941:

Balance of Power December 1941

On the - fairly unlikely - chance, that a war starting in December 1941 might still see the same sides develope, let's look at Allies vs Axis in these circumstances.

Battleships/Battlecruisers:
Britain – 21 (+7 likely to complete), France – 10 (+1 likely to complete), US – 16 (+9 likely to complete). Total 47? (+17?)

Germany – 4 (+1?), Italy – 7 (+1), Japan – 10 (+2). Total 21? (+3 or 4?). 

(Note, without Italy – which would be far less likely to jump onto the Axis team in such circumstances – the real German/Japanese battleship/battlecruiser numbers would be just – 14 (+2 or 3), with potentially Italy now in Allied column making it 54 (+20) on that side... You can do similar calculations for the rest of these types if it amuses you, but note that the Italians are about 40% of the Axis totals in most classes, and if they rejoined the Allies for the Second war, the Allied naval dominance would be even greater than in the First...)

Fleet Aircraft Carriers:
Britain – 13 (+ 8), France – 1 (+2), US – 6 (+11). Total 19? (+20?).
Germany – 1? (+1?), Italy – (+2?), Japan 6 (+1 and 4 conversions). Total 7? (+6-8?)

(Note, Britain, Japan and the US also had 2 or 3 older or lighter carriers each, none really suitable for front line service, and Britain and the US would both have their first few escort carriers coming on line. Japan also had 4 light conversions in process, and a pile of UNRYU class on order (only 3 of which were ever completed), while the USN had 11 cruiser conversions in line for 1943-4 and lots more escort carriers starting in 1942; and the RN would also have had 10 Colossus class in line for 1943-4, and lots more escort carriers starting 1942.)

Cruisers:
Britain – 88 (+24?), France – 23 (+5?), US 37 (+40?). Total 148? (+69?)
Germany – 12? (+3?), Italy – 23? (+12?), Japan 38 (+10). Total 73? (+25?)
(Italy in allied line up  - Allies 171 (+81) to Axis 50 (+13)...)

Destroyers:
Britain –  321 (+64), France – 105 (+30?), US 177 (+188). Total 604? (+282?)
Germany – 34? (+12), Italy –59? (+12?), Japan – 108 (+43). Total 188? (+63?)
(Italy in allied line up  - Allies 663 (+294) to Axis 142 (+75)...)

Escorts:
Britain –  500? (plus 240?), France – 120 (+45?), US – 120? (+160?). Total 740 (+445?)
Germany –  35 (+18), Italy – 78 (+15?), Japan – very few...

Submarines:
Britain – 102? (+60?) , France – 113? (+40?), US – 114 (+79). Total 329 (+ 179?).
Germany – 112? (+85?), Italy – 129? (+24?), Japan 63 (+60?). Total 304 (+169?)
(Italy in allied line up  - Allies 458? (+203?) to Axis 175? (+142?)...)


I think you can see where I am going with this. With these respective numbers in December 1941, it is extremely unlikely that Italy would enter the war on Germany's side. 

Even if France was suddenly defeated and knocked out and the French fleet dropped out of the allied count. British naval dominance would be too great for Italy to take the risk. 

And Japan would be unlikely to see an opportunity to take advantage of even if France was suddenly knocked out, given RN and USN combined numbers. Especially if Italy seemed unlikely to assist.


First, why might war not have started in September 1939?

Frankly, it is because Britain was having trouble getting France and the Dominions to agree to go to war. It is perhaps unfortunate that after years of trying to get everyone signed up, they finally got agreement to fight at a bad time, over a very poor case.

A bit of explanation

When Germany re-occupied the Rhineland in 1936, it was Britain that wasn't ready to support France in countermeasures. 

But by the time of the Austrian Anschluss in March 1938, none of the 3 WW1 allies – Britain, France, or Italy, were willing to fight Germany over the issue. (One American journalist asked the previously belicose Mussolini why he had threatened war with Germany over just this sort of plan in 1934, but backed down in 1938. His answer was simple. "In 1934 I could have beaten Germany's army".)

Nonetheless the Anschluss made the major powers accelerate their re-armament programs. though note that Germany tripled it's gold reserves, and greatly increased its steel resources...

The occupation of the Sudetenland by Germany in September 1938 caused much more debate, but Chamberlain's notorious Munich Agreement was considered a reasonable result by many people, given that the Sudetenland was mainly occupied by German people's. But Hitler's promise that it was his last territorial demand was given a little bit too much weight. Churchill demurred...

We have suffered a total and unmitigated defeat... you will find that in a period of time which may be measured by years, but may be measured by months, Czechoslovakia will be engulfed in the Nazi rĂ©gime. We are in the presence of a disaster of the first magnitude... we have sustained a defeat without a war, the consequences of which will travel far with us along our road... 

Unfortunately sacrificing the powerful Czech army and its impressive border defences to this agreement actually undermined the ability of Britain and France to bring Hitler to heel. In October 1938 the combined British, French and Czech forces could probably have beaten the still woefully unprepared German forces. (The strong Czech army, with superb border fortifications and 470 modern tanks – more than Germany had at the time – was very motivated to fight until sold out by the British and French. If anything it was actually capturing the Czech arsenal and munition factories that made it possible for Germany to win the battle with France 18 months later. That included 25% of all German military equipment, including 350 of the mechanically reliable Czech t35 and t38 tanks. Which were effectively the dominant medium tanks for the German attacks on Poland and France, being hugely superior to the large numbers of Panzer I and Panzer II that were the backbone of the German forces, and greatly outnumbering the Panzer III, and Panzer IV that were only just entering service.)

But when the British government discussed war in 1938, the simple fact was that none of the Dominions were willing to consider it yet, and it had been clear since the White Russian wars and the Turkish Crisis of the 1920's that the British would not go to war without at least the agreement of Australia, Canada, New Zealand and hopefully South Africa. 

[Eire was pretty much a write off for the Allies in WWII, and not worth considering in the anti-Axis camp. The Irish government's supposed neutrality was actually fairly pro-Nazi – or at least anti-English – in its effects for much of the war: greatly hindering Allied efforts, and giving constant fears of Vichy style Nazi occupation that would have to be countered by British or American troops. (The Valera government was the only government in the world to issue official condolences to Germany on Hitler's death in 1945... A fitting comment on their parochial delusions about the world.)]

Frankly, in 1938 and early 1939, the Dominions weren't ready to fight for 'a small country, far away, that no one has heard of' over its right to control its German sub groups. So war at surprisingly good odds for the allies was not possible. New Zealand might have signed up, maybe, but possibly not even Australia, and almost certainly not Canada or South Africa.

This was particularly unfortunate, as the German High Command actually sent a private envoy to tell the Chamberlain government they would mount a coup if Hitler ordered an attack and started a war that Germany must surely lose. See the Wikipedia article on the Munich Agreement/Opinion:

On 4 August 1938, a secret Army meeting was held. Beck read his lengthy report to the assembled officers. They all agreed something had to be done to prevent certain disaster. Beck hoped they would all resign together but no one resigned except Beck. His replacement, General Franz Halder, sympathized with Beck and they both conspired with several top generals, Admiral Wilhelm Canaris (Chief of German Intelligence), and Graf von Helldorf (Berlin's Police Chief) to arrest Hitler the moment he gave the invasion order. This plan would only work if Britain issued a strong warning and a letter to the effect that they would fight to preserve Czechoslovakia. This would help to convince the German people that certain defeat awaited Germany. Agents were therefore sent to England to tell Chamberlain that an attack on Czechoslovakia was planned, and of their intention to overthrow Hitler if this occurred. The proposal was rejected by the British Cabinet and no such letter was issued. Accordingly, the proposed removal of Hitler did not go ahead.[62] On this basis it has been argued that the Munich Agreement kept Hitler in power, although whether it would have been any more successful than the 1944 plot is doubtful.

The allies actions, or lack of them, not only bolstered Hitlers position, but undermined any opposition. Poland and Russia had been willing to untie with teh British and French against Germany over Czechoslovakia. Both were appalled that the French in particular abandoned their treaty obligations. Th Poles shrugged and joined in the scavenging, (though their are cases where Czech and Polish forces worked together to stop further German advances). But the Soviet Union started seeking a rapprochement with Hitler.

Unfortunately it was only Hitler's occupation of the 'rump' of Czechoslovakia a few months later that revealed the lie of 'no more territorial demands', and swung the Dominions around. People like Prime Minister Menzies in Australia start actually pushing for Britain to make a stand. But too late...

Germany gained 2,175 field guns and cannons, 469 tanks, 500 anti-aircraft artillery pieces, 43,000 machine guns, 1,090,000 military rifles, 114,000 pistols, about a billion rounds of small-arms ammunition, and 3 million rounds of anti-aircraft ammunition. That could then arm about half of the Wehrmacht.[99] Czechoslovak weapons later played a major role in the German conquest of Poland and France, the last of which country had urged Czechoslovakia into surrendering the Sudetenland in 1938.

Unfortunately the next opportunity for a stand was Poland.

The problem with Poland was that it was a bad country to make a stand for. Politically and militarily.

Whereas Czechoslovakia was a nice fairly innocuous country that could and would have put up a fight that Britain and France - possibly even Italy – could have effectively supported, Poland was not.

Poland was a fairly nasty aggressor between the wars, invading Russia in the 1920's, and gleefully grabbing part of Czechoslovakia, and indeed Hungary, when the Nazi's carved it up in 1938. Nor were they militarily capable of holding the Germans – armed with Czech tanks – off on open plains, the way Czech's might have held the considerably weaker German forces a year earlier in the fortified mountain passes. Nor could the allies find an effective way to support the Poles, particularly after the Russians also stabbed them in the back.

So the first point at which the British could go to war, was probably the point at which they shouldn't, and for a country they definitely shouldn't. (And which, notably, they couldn't save anyway, neither from the Germans, or from the Soviet's post war.)

Frankly the September 1939 start to the war was during a fairly temporary optimum window for the Germans. 

Let's analyse that.

The German economy was already in poor condition, and it was the looting of Austrian gold and Czech armaments that gave it a temporary boost in what was effectively still peacetime. (The later looting of the Polish and French economies never made up for the costs of a full world war being in progress.)

Demographically German military manpower was at a height in 1940/41 that gave it an advantage over the allies and potentially Russians, that would quickly evaporate within a few years. (Demographics was an important science between the wars, and many leaders – like Hitler and Stalin – make frequent references to it. The Russians in particular would start having more manpower available starting in 1942... perhaps not a coincidence that Germany invaded in 1941?) 

The Nazi air forces had a temporary superiority over the Allies in 1939 that was already being rapidly undercut as both the British and the French finally started mass production of newer aircraft. (By mid 1940 British aircraft production had overtaken the Germans, even without the French. If the war had not started in 1939, by 1941 the Luftwaffe would have been numerically quite inferior to the combined British and French air forces, even without the surprisingly effective new fighters being bought on line by the Dutch and others.)

German ground forces, while not really ready for war in September 1939 (half of their divisions were still pretty much immobile, and they had only 120,000 vehicles all up compared to 300,000 for the French army alone), were nonetheless in a peak of efficiency considering the Czech's and Poles had been knocked out, and the British and French were struggling to get new equipment into service. The Soviet short term decision to ally with the Germans to carve up Eastern Europe (Stalin knew this was only a temporary delay to inevitable conflict), also allowed the Germans an easy victory and much greater freedom of action. Again, by 1941 British conscription and production, and French (and Belgian, and Dutch, etc...) upgrades and increases in fortifications, would have come a lot closer to making the German task next to impossible. (Even then it was the collapse of French morale after the loss of Finland - leading to the collapse of the French government – and Norway, that really defeated France, not vastly inferior divisions or equipment.)

A byproduct of an Allied vamp up might also have seen Belgium rejoin the allied camp in 1941, or at least make significant planning preparations to properly add its 22 divisions and strong border fortifications to allied defences if Germany attacked. (Rather than the hopeless mess that happened in 1940 when the allies rushed to rescue the temporarily non-ally that had undermined the whole interwar defensive project ...) Again, the German's managed to find a sweet spot in 1939-40 that temporarily undermined long standing interwar co-operation, and one that was not likely to last very long.

Similarly a delay of war would have allowed allied negotiations with the Balkan states to advance. The same guarantee that was given to Poland had been given to Yugoslavia, Rumania and Greece. (It is usually forgotten that Greece – attacked by Italy – and Yugoslavia – voluntarily – joined the British side at the worst possible moment in 1941. (Only to be crushed by the Germans... but with the interesting by-product of effectively undermining Germany's chances of defeating the Soviets and occupying Moscow in the same year...)

The enigma that was Italy

More importantly Italy had wobbled backwards and forwards between supporting the allies in WWI, and threatening the Germans in the early 30's; to threatening the allies in the mid 30's over territorial expansion in Africa; to fighting on the anti-Communist side along with the Germans in Spain in the mid 30's; to desperately trying to supply the Finns in their fight against the Soviets in 1940 despite the Germans trying to prevent them getting supplies through. 

Probably the only consistent thing about Italy's stands in Mussolini's 20+ years in power was anti-communism. Which was why his relations with Hitler were so fraught when Hitler signed the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, and why Mussolini's government did its best to ship military supplies to Finland, and entered perfectly genuine negotiations with the Allies to support operations against Russian aggression... in return for getting back all the shares in the Baku oilfields that the Communists had nationalised... (Shares that skyrocketed on the French Bourse during the Finnish crisis...)

Mussolini was an opportunist rather than a genuine foam flecked fascist like Hitler. But he was a very genuine anti-Communist. People remember that at one point he signed they Axis Treaty with Germany, but manage to forget all the other treaties he signed with France (such as the Locarno Treaties in the 20's, and the Mussolini-Laval Accords in the 30's). The times he seemed to swap sides usually had more to do with where Britain, France or Germany were on the anti-Communist perspective at that point, than with which side he finished up on. Though of course, he always wanted any glorious territorial success story for his people to gloat about... the what and where, and indeed value, of that territory was actually hardly even relevant. (Ethiopia for God's sake! Who would want to fight a major conflict to control Ethiopia... particularly when Britain can cut your communications to it any time it likes?)

Frankly, had the allies gone to war at the time of the Rhineland, or even of Anschluss; or had they seemed like winning against the Molotov-Ribbentrop alliance: then Mussolini would probably just have joined the allied side. (For appropriate prestige and preferably territorial enrichment of course. Principals be damned.)

Mussolini made the fatal choice of joining Germany in 1940 –against the wishes of most of his population – simply because he saw a quick and easy win when France collapsed. He even let that greed overcome his disgust at the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact.

But there is no way he would have declared war on Britain and France unless France suddenly collapsed... as it did in Germany's 1940 sweet spot. If war had not started until December 1941, and Italy had been faced with the naval balance of power listed above, there is no way that Mussolini would declare war on the allies. In fact, even if a much stronger set of allies had still seen France still collapse in 1942, it is nonetheless hard to see Mussolini taking the 'opportunity' he saw in 1940, given the overwhelming RN superiority that would completely dominate the Mediterranean by 1942.

Mussolini thought he saw a 'sweet spot' in 1940, and was wrong. It is unlikely he would have imagined the same sweet spot in the 1942 conditions described above.

Choosing Poorly

Frankly Italy abandoning its century long ally Britain and opportunistically joining the German side in 1940, was as bad a decision as Turkey doing the same thing in 1914. With equally bad results.

In the classic phrase of an Indiana Jones film, 'he chose poorly'.

Such incentives would have been extremely unlikely to happen in 1942... even if France did collapse then.

If war between Germany and the allies started in December 1941 it is hard not to see Mussolini joining the allied side. As long as he could get something out of it.

Particularly if it was a war of allies against a Molotov-Ribbentrop pact alliance.

Only if the war that started in December 1941 was between Germany and the Soviets, but not against Britain and France, might he have been on the same side as in the Spanish Civil War. (With the slight qualification that the British and French navies had not been willing to prevent him interfering in Spain during their civil war, and he would need the same effective licence from those navies to even considering interfering in Russia if Germany attacked the Soviets.)

To emphasise the point. Mussolini was genuinely anti-Communist, but also genuinely opportunistic. He only moved when he thought he saw real advantage.

Moving against the allies in 1940 probably seemed like a good idea at the time. But that in no way implies that he would have declared war on Britain and France at any point that didn't seem so opportunistically advantageous.

Japanese Ambition

Similarly, the December 1941 Japanese Navy preferred option to 'go south' against the French, American, British and Dutch colonial possessions (rather than keeping on with the Japanese Army's preferred 'going north' against the Chinese and Russians): was again, a decision to try and take advantage of a temporary 'sweet spot'. 

Again, it may have looked clever to start with, but in reality, they also 'chose poorly'.

In reality France and the Netherlands had been suddenly knocked out of the war and occupied. (Making efforts to defend their Asian possessions almost impossible, and allowing the occupation of French Indo-China, which moved the Japanese air forces within easy reach of Malaysia, and also allowed her to demand 'basing rights' in Thailand). 

And in reality Britain was suddenly saddled with a world-wide multi-front war where it was very difficult to move enough forces East to secure Malaya and Singapore in time. (Britain was fighting the Germans and Italians in Europe, Africa and the Middle East; across the north and South Atlantics, and the Indian Ocean; and also trying to fight enough supplies through to a recently invaded Russia to keep it in the war, which required the occupation of Syria, Iraq and Iran as well.) 

Even though Britain theoretically had the military forces to secure Malaya if it had been possible to move them to the other side of the world in time, she could not get troops and planes from Europe to Asia while trying to keep all the other balls in the air. (The 3,000 fighters and several hundred tanks the British had shipped to Russia in 1941 may have been critical to save Moscow in December 1941, but a mere 10% of those planes and tanks would almost certainly have saved Malaya... IN fact 20% and the Japanese would not even have tried... Such are the consequences of difficult choices in wartime.)

Nonetheless, by March 1942 the intention was to have a fleet of 7 battleships and 2-3 aircraft carriers based in Ceylon, with enough extra planes and troops arriving in Malaya to finally make it secure enough to move an offensive fleet there. (And similarly the US was reinforcing its Pacific fleet and Philippines air forces as well, and discussions were finally moving towards combined operations, and units of the USN – a carrier, several cruisers and lots of destroyers and submarines were usually mentioned – rebasing to Singapore to support the RN.) 

By April, or at latest by May 1942, the allies would have been strong enough to make a Japanese attack far more risky.

But in December 1941 the allied reinforcements were still dribbling in, and no proper plans for co-operation had been finalised: allowing the Japanese chose to take the chance. A temporary sweet spot.

Had war in Europe not broken out yet, it is hard to see Japan taking the chance.

Allied Naval Forces in the Far East in December 1941

Again, here are a couple of paragraphs from my post on Aircraft Carriers in December 1941 (read the full post for full deployments...)

Naval Security in the Far East  in December 1941
RN with 8-9 capital ships - including 4-5 fast battleships, 2 slow battleships, and 2 battlecruisers - 4-5 KGV (though Howe would probably still be working up or en-route), plus 2 fully modernised Renown's, and 2 Revenge on Indian Ocean escort duty.
(Plus perhaps a Richelieu or two, and possibly both Dunkerques in Indochina, if Japan looks more threatening than Germany/Italy?)
A completely modernised Hood (possibly as flagship), and 2 or 3 of the new Lion class, also expected to join this force in the next year or so.

4-5 fleet aircraft carriers and one or two smaller - Indomitable, Ark Royal, and the somewhat modernised Courageous and Glorious (all about 70 aircraft each if deck parks had been adopted for service in the Indian or Pacific oceans?), and the new support carrier Unicorn (33 operationally) probably en-route.

Also Hermes and/or Argus, and perhaps a new escort carrier or two, for Indian Ocean escort duty.

Indomitable or Implacable and maybe some more escort carriers expected to join this force in a few months; with Indefatigable joining late 1942, and another 3 or 4 large fleet carriers and several more escort carriers due in 1943.
 
Had Britain entered the war in December 1941 her 8 or 9 modern carriers in service, 2-4 more expected in 1942, and at least 4 more in 1943/44 (plus three older carriers, and a steady stream of escort and light carriers expected), the RN would have had a much easier war. 

Combined RN and USN build rates, even without French support, would have already simply swamped the build capacities of the Axis powers.

Particularly as these new carriers would  be fitted with Sea Hurricane and Wildcat/Martlet fighters, Fulmar strike-fighters and probably still Albacore bombers, (while waiting for deliveries of TBM Avenger and Barracuda Dive/Torpedo bombers), rather than the Swordfish and Gladiators of September 1939. 

Also, the 8-9 available Japanese battleships would be facing potentially 20-24 RN, French and USN battleships – most of them more modern or more effectively modernised, and generally faster than anything the Japanese had in service. 

Likewise the RN and USN's 8 or 9 fast modern fleet carriers (plus 2 or 3 small), with several more expected in 1942 and again in 1943, compared to Japan's 6 (plus 2 or 3 small) carriers, with only one significant vessel – Taiho – in the pipeline, and that only laid down a few months earlier – and no emergency Unryu having even been started yet.

In fact if Japan had even considered declaring war without Germany, or – considerably less likely – at least Italy, also declaring war: then the odds would look much worse.

Without genuine threats from Germany or Italy, several more RN battleships – say the 2 Nelsons and 2 of the Queen Elizabeth's – and a few more carriers – Illustrious, and either Victorious or Formidable most likely – might have been transferred from the Home or Mediterranean fleet much earlier if needed (in return for Hermes and Argus returning to home waters while Implacable and Indefatigable completed...)

Giving the RN alone complete superiority over the Japanese in battleships: with 12-14 RN fast battleships/battlecruisers available – almost all of them more modern and considerably faster than most Japanese ships – even without any of the 4 modern French fast battleships, and possibly even both modern US battleships – North Carolina and Washington. (Leaving 'just' another 10 or so older and slower USN battleships, for potential support in secondary defensive and escort roles...) 

Note that would still leave the Allies with superior numbers in the Atlantic/Mediterranean area, with the British (7 or 8 - including a couple of Lions and/or Vanguard working up with Home Fleet and 2 or 3 more battleships due in each of 1942, 43 and 44), the French (5 with possibly a 6th due 1943), and USN neutrality patrol (5 or 6 - including the first 2 South Dakota's working up, with 2 more battleships due in each of 1942, 43 and 44). These 'Allied' 18-20 capital ships numbering about twice as many capital ships as Germany (4, with possibly a 5th starting fit out anda 6th just launched but 18 months from completion... If the H plan had got anywhere) and Italy (6 with a seventh working up) combined... not that Italy would be likely to try anything stupid in these circumstances.

In fact I would expect the Italian numbers to move back towards the Allied column in such circumstances.

The above does not include the dozens of extra cruisers, destroyers, submarines and escorts the allies would have been able to relocate to Asia in these circumstances. The Dutch alone had a number of new cruisers and submarines coming on line between 1939 and 1942 to reinforce the half dozen cruisers and 20 odd submarines already based there.

British, French and American air production was also skyrocketing from 1938 onwards (with a lot of the US increase being orders for the French and Dutch and even Chinese military), and without war start in September 1939, the allied air forces in Asia would have looked similarly enhanced by December 1941. Unless France and the Netherlands had already fallen to Germany: French Indo-China, Malaya, the Philippines, and the Dutch East Indies, would all have had a steady flow of new aircraft arriving. (And the main Japanese air forces would be starting from Taiwan – 3,100 kilometres away from Singapore – not from French Indo-China – about 1,100 kilometres – or indeed from Thailand - literally next door to Malaya.)

With conscription being re-introduced in March 1939 in Britain (pre-1939 war start...); late 1939 in Australia (admittedly on war start, but probably would have come anyway considering how the Menzies government was going); and in 1940 in the US (again, well the US entering the war): it is also likely that Britain, India and Australia would have had a several more divisions to defend Malaya, let alone US reinforcements to the Philippines, French to Indo-China or Dutch to the East Indies. 

Even should France and the Netherlands both suddenly collapse after a December 1941 start where Germany, Italy and Japan actually co-ordinated efforts (realistically never likely to happen), Japan could not have just started from positions in Indo-China and Thailand for it's Blitzkreig, and wouldn't have had the necessary sweet spot of temporary superiority to allow it to move it's forces quickly to defeat each allied position one at a time before they could be made more secure.

Repeating the Turkish Mistake

Frankly Japan was an unlikely opponent anyway. On the allied side in WWI, it was really only a combined effort by paranoid Americans and racist Australians that saw the Anglo-Japanese Naval Treaty – only just renewed post war – destroyed at the Washington naval conference. But for that incredibly stupid decision, the Japanese would have been as foolish to take on their British allies in WWII, as the Turks were to attack their long term ally and protector in WWI.

It may have seemed a good opportunity at the time, but see 'they chose poorly' above.

German/Japanese Co-operation

In the real war, the Axis version of co-operation was pathetic, with almost no attempt to co-ordinate action between the Germans and the Japanese.

Personally I think this is partly German racism, partly Japanese paranoia, and partly simply that the Japanese opportunism against the allies was almost as surprising to the Germans as German opportunism against the Russians a few months earlier had been to the Japanese.

But if we assume no start to war in 1939, and give the Germans and Japanese 2 extra years to communicate, (and particularly if we don't have the shocking Molotov-Ribbentrop pact to convince the Japanese not to trust the Germans): might they have actually come up with some sort of combined strategy?

I still think probably not, but if it had happened, it could have had only one target.

Russia.

Again, people forget that when the allies intervened in the White Russian wars between the communists and the Tsarists in the post-WWI period, one of those allies had been Japan. Even when the British and French eventually withdrew their troops from Archangel, Finland, the Ukraine, the Caucasus, and Siberia: the Japanese had continued to occupy significant parts of Siberia for several years.

And since engaging in the 'China adventure' in the 30's, Japan had fought several encounters with the Soviets. See Zhukov's brilliant victory against them in 1939 for instance. (And get a reinforced sense of why the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact really, really convinced the Japanese they couldn't trust the Nazi's.)

Yet if war had not happened in 1939. and particularly if the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact had not seen Japan 'stabbed in the back' by their Axis friend, then would a war start in December 1941 have seen the two co-operate to crush Russia? Certainly Japan's Foreign Minister Matsuoko had been as keen on the idea as the Imperial General Staff.

In 1941 it seems far more likely that the Japanese would 'do a Poland' and co-operate with Germany to go after Russia; than that they would co-operate with Germany to attack a combination of Britain, France, the Netherlands and the US.

Any chance of Italy joining the Axis?

Not in an attack on Britain and France (and incidentally on the US), no. 

Particularly if Italy was now feeling a bit pro-allied in that regard... or should we say a bit more intimidated by rising allied naval superiority.

In fact the ONLY way Italy might finish up on the Axis side in December 1941, would appear to be if Germany and Japan convinced Mussolini that Russia was the only target... and that the British and French might not go to war to save her.

(This is not to say that Mussolini might not have tried to knock off Greece or Yugoslavia in passing. He was still a dangerously stupid opportunist. But if he did finish in a war against Britain and France, it would almost certainly be by accidental hubris, not by cunning plan...)

So is there any chance of a World War starting in December 1941 instead.

No, not in the form we know it.

But yes, definitely in the form of a German and Japanese alliance against Russia.

After all, that would be both more possible, and more attractive, given the changing balance of naval power.

There is even the possibility that Italy might have joined them in an 'anti-Communist crusade', but only if they thought it would NOT involve fighting Britain and France in the process.

So you are left with Germany and Japan, and perhaps Italy, against Russia and... China?

But does that become a world war? Could such a simple war start have led to 'complications'.

Would Britain or France have gone to war to save Stalin's appalling Communist dictatorship in such circumstances? It seems unlikely. (Nor would the Dominions have been keen to go to war for Stalin.)

Would Germany or Japan have felt it to be clever to attack Britain and France in such circumstances? It seems unlikely. If they were getting their territorial aggrandisement unopposed, why would you?

More interestingly, would the US have eventually decided to try and intervene on China's behalf anyway? Unlikely given US isolationism, and the reality that the US showed no interest in joining in either world war until forced into it, (and even then in 1941 it only actually declared war on Japan after having their teeth kicked in... Hitler still had to be the one to declare war on the US to get them properly involved). But I suppose it is still possible to conceive of the US going to war with Japan over China. After all, it was ever increasing US pressure and sanctions over China that effectively convinced Japan it had to take on the US in 1941.

This then provides the amusing picture of the US deciding to fight Japan over China while Britain and France are still neutral. (It may be hard to imagine the US actually taking the lead in anything given their domestic politics, but it parallels what they actually did in 1941.)

In which case, perhaps it would even having the same disastrous results that the US managed to achieve in reality? Without any British, Indian, Australian, New Zealand or Dutch allies distract the Japanese military into Malaya, the East Indies, Burma, New Guinea, and the Indian Ocean: there would be no need to divert most of the best Japanese units in other directions. Leaving only the barest screen against the British and French navies, the Japanese could have concentrated their battle hardened forces on the inexperienced and inadequately prepared Americans instead. 

[Actually that looks like being a fun article in itself... perhaps my next post...]

Actually it even offers the amusing thought of a US-Russian-Chinese alliance against a German-Japanese-Italian alliance... without Britain or France becoming involved... Sweet!

Back to Reality

More realistically though, a German attack on Russia in the 1940 or 1941 campaigning seasons would almost certainly have succeeded, for the following reasons:
1)    The entire German military could have concentrated on Russia. Instead of the reality where 90% of the Kreigsmarine (or what was left of it after 2 years of war with Britain), 50% of the Luftwaffe, and 35% of the Wehrmacht, were occupying - Norway, Denmark, Netherlands, Belgium, France, Yugoslavia, Greece, and Crete; and fighting in/over/under – Britain, North Africa, the Atlantic, and the Mediterranean.
2)    The Russians would not get immediate support from people already fighting the Germans. Certainly not thousands of vital fighters and tanks pre Christmas...
3)   The best German forces for the invasion would not have done a little detour for a couple of thousand miles through the Balkans down to Greece and Crete, and back to the Polish border, before kicking off. And not suffered the casualties, attrition, and wastage of irreplaceable supplies that they actually suffered just prior to invasion in 1941. (It was actually Von Kluge's 10th Army – the one that fought all the way down to Greece and back before starting Operation Barbarossa – that finally ran out of steam in the suburbs of Moscow in December 1941...)
4)    The crack German paratroop arm, which was supposed to be a key to breakthroughs in Russia – as it had been in Belgium and France – would not have been wiped out as an effective force in Crete. 
5)    The Russian military would not have had the time to get into the rebuild that its disastrous failures in the Finnish campaign actually led to. (Which were only starting to see vital new equipment like T34's arrive in late 1941.)
6) In fact Russia would probably not have had the disastrous Molotov-Ribbentropp Pact defeats in Finland to force it into changing its military structures, rebuilding its officer class, and hastening new equipment like the T34. Frankly it might have been in an even more parlous military state, and collapsed completely.

Frankly the 'miracle' of Russian survival in 1941 was only possible with all those things in their favour. Without any distractions  to the Germans, or any rebuilds after a Finnish disaster, or indeed any equipment support from allies like Britain, the Soviets were unlikely to hold out.

Had the Japanese followed up with a serious invasion at the same time (meaning that Zhukov and his 30 crack Siberian divisions could NOT have been rebased to the defence of Moscow in December), then the Soviet collapse would have been practically guaranteed.

So the question becomes, does a Germany that has achieved its territorial ambitions in Europe and conquored Russia (and is extremely occupied digesting its new territories), then feel the need to attack Britain and France? Unlikely, at least in the short term.

Germany would simply have no capacity to attack Britain effectively. (And in Mein Kampf Hitler makes it clear that he valued the British Empire's role in the world, and saw them as natural allies who would only become enemies if they interfered in his 'rightful territorial ambitions'.) And if Britain was willing to stick to the guarantee to France, then even attacking France would be an unnecessary risk. (Remembering Hitler only felt the need to take the risky step to attack France in 1940, because they had gone to war with him over Poland...)

Or, given that they would both be much stronger by then, do Britain and France feel the need to attack Germany pre-emptively, just in case they might be next? Unlikely, as domestic politics would probably be as against it as US isolationism, and again, the Dominions might be hard to convince.

Frankly, no matter how we might fantasise that the British and French might go to war for to save the horrible Soviets, or the US go to war for the Chinese: it is far more likely Britain and France and the US would have stayed quietly behind their much improved defences, and just negotiated for the Germans and Japanese be satisfied with their new colonial empires in Russia and China.

Conclusion

If war had been delayed from the 'sweet spots' that Germany managed in 1939/40, and Italy and Japan consequently THOUGHT they saw in 1940/41, then it would simply not have happened in the same way.

Given naval build up alone, neither Italy or Japan would have even considered going to war with Britain and France in December 1941. No sweet spot = no fatal attraction.

Now whether a late 1940's war between a new German/Japanese alliance that had successfully integrated Russia and most of China, and THOUGHT they saw a sweet spot of allied disunity later... whether that might have happened... 

That's a mindbogglingly impractical question to answer.


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