Wednesday, February 16, 2011

Statistical confusion – whose troops actually did the fighting in World War Two

I was recently researching how many divisions were in action for which nations, at what time and for how long, during the Second World War: and came up with some astonishing misconceptions. (Coincidentally backed up by a recent readers question about who ‘Frenched’… not a term I am familiar with, but I can hazard a guess at its meaning.)

China for instance had theoretically more than 300 divisions, though in fact most were lucky to have the combat power of a Western battalion, perhaps Regiment if they were one of the best equipped. Some of their best ‘Armies’ might have matched a poor Japanese division… maybe. When Stillwell was assigned to rebuild a more useful force on American lines he felt he might assemble about 30 lightweight divisions out of the resources actually available, with no pretence that any of the end products would actually match a Japanese division in the field (even if the Chinese would have let them fight).

The Eastern Front is also a bit fanciful in this regard. Although some German units started each campaign season at or near full strength, for most of the war the vast majority of divisions on both German and Russian sides were perhaps the equivalent of a Western Brigade or Regiment. Many were far weaker (particularly those of Germany’s ‘allies’). As a rule a Soviet Corps might match a weak German division, but you would probably need a small Soviet Army to match a fully mechanised Western division in combat power.

So talk of the Germans having 200+ divisions on the Eastern Front compared to only 80 facing the West tends to hide the fact that a large majority of the Eastern Front units were undermanned infantry, and a far more significant percentage of the units facing West were mechanised, and often at or near full strength. In sheer combat power, the removal of ten percent of divisions (say 20 divisions) from the Eastern Front to face the Western Allies (happened 3 times – Tunisia/Mediterranean 1942, Sicily/Italy 1943, and France 1944) looks a lot more significant if it involves moving 50% of the available Panzers and 70 or 80% of the high quality, full strength, specially equipped, Paratroop or Mountain or Waffen SS divisions. (Though far more Germans – and their Axis Hungarian, Rumanian, Finnish, etc allies – died on the Eastern front than in the west. See my post here for a discussion of the numbers fallacy on the Eastern Front.)

But the really interesting thing was working out the numbers of Western Allied divisions deployed at any point in the war. I, like most others I suppose, knew that American units were not relevant until late1942, but I assumed they formed a large percentage of units in action fairly quickly after that. Certainly I had subconsciously fallen for the idea that by the time of the D-Day invasion the Americans were providing the bulk of the combat troops for the Western Allies. But apparently that is just another example of letting your pre-conceptions run away with you.

Throughout 1942 British Comonwealth troops were fighting, or seriously expecting to be attacked, in French North Africa, Libya, Egypt, Cyprus, Syria (torn between expecting airborne assault, and preparing to reinforce Turkey if that country was attacked), Iraq and Iran (German invasion from the north was attracting more British troop deployment until after Stalingrad than those facing Japan and Rommel combined), Madagascar (fighting the Vichy French to prevent them from inviting the Japanese in as they had done in Indochina), Ceylon (at the time of the Japanese naval raid that looked like it might prefigure and invasion), India, Burma, outposts of the East Indies, New Guinea, Australia, New Zealand, Fiji, and other Pacific Islands. A total of 30+ divisions in combat, and another 30+ expecting imminent attack. (This does not include yet another 30 odd British and Canadian divisions in the UK.) Apart from the Philippino forces surrendered early in the year, the Americans had a couple of divisions in action at Gaudalcanal after August, one in New Guinea by November, and late in November a few arrived in French North Africa.

In 1943 the Americans managed to get their numbers up to half a dozen divisions at the front in Europe and the same in the Pacific, but still not matching the British or Indian armies respectively, and barely matching the combined efforts of minor allies like the Free Poles, French, Greeks and Italians etc.

The breakthrough in American numbers was not until after the middle of 1944, when American units started arriving direct to France (which admittedly, was what Marshall had been trying to do all along).

But although American troops may have outnumbered British and Commonwealth troops in France by late 1944, the total of Allied troops, including the Free French, Poles, Czech, Dutch, Belgians, ensured that it was never quite as clear cut a domination as it appears. Devers ‘American’ 6th Army Group that come up from the South Coast was half French after all. In fact in 1945 it became a race to see if the Americans could import new divisions faster than the French could commission theirs (France had 1.3 million men in the field by VE Day). But the Americans fielding 60 divisions in France compared to only 20 British Commonwealth/ minor allies is the figure waved around as significant. (Ignoring that 15 of the American divisions did not get there until 1945, and by the end the liberated French had mobilised a couple of dozen divisions too, making the non-American total more like 40).

So the Americans did predominate in France, but the war was spread a bit further than France. If you take Europe as a whole, then the situation gets more interesting. The Americans in combat in Europe possibly didn’t start to outnumber the total other Western Allies until about the time of the collapse of Germany’s frontiers, and only weeks before the final surrender.

In Italy American troops never played more than a subsidiary part to the operation, and throughout the war even the ‘American’ 5th Army usually had as many (if not more) British, Canadian, New Zealander, Polish, Italian or French troops in it than Americans. Again, it was not until almost 1945 that even the 5th Army was majority American. They rarely made up more than a third of Allied ground forces in Italy.

If we include the Mediterranean/North African/Middle Eastern forces fighting the ‘anti-German’ half of the World War in a combined ‘European Theatre’ (which was one American generals fanciful suggestion when they wanted Marshall in charge of all ‘European’ operations), then American troops do not dominate ever. There are just too many British and French and Polish and Canadian and New Zealand and South African and Indian and Italian and Greek and Brazilian and other troops garrisoning recently liberated places from Morrocco to Iran and Ethiopia to Belgium; and still fighting to secure Greece, Austria, Denmark and Norway. (Note: The Soviets were starting to pile on pressure in Iran and throughout the Middle East already, and Greece was in serious danger of falling behind the Iron Curtain until British troops did some hard fighting.)

The war against Japan is even more deceptive, particularly if you fall for the fantasy that it was a ‘Pacific’ war. Leaving aside the supposed millions of Chinese, the British Empire and Commonwealth already had more than a million men at the front in India, Burma, Malaysia, New Guinea, Indonesia, and in the Pacific Islands, before the Americans had introduced more than a few divisions. Again, it is almost 1945, less than 10 months before the Japanese surrender, before the Phillipines campaign actually saw an entire American army (the 6th) deployed at a single time, instead of just a division fighting on this island for a month, and two or three on that for a few months. Until well into 1943 the Australian Army alone deployed more ground fighting troops against the Japanese than the Americans. The Americans never put more troops into combat against the Japanese at any point than just the Indian Army (which had a total of 32 divisions at its height, several in Europe or the Middle East, but many of which eventually faced Japan).

On a worldwide scale, the point at which the Americans fielded more troops than just the other Western allies (leaving aside the Russians and Chinese, the Hungarians, Rumanians, Yugoslavs, and all the others who fought the Axis), was… well never. The British Commonwealth alone fielded over 100 divisions in 1942 (though admittedly many were weaker garrison forces than proper mechanised field divisions), compared to the American total of 88 by the end of the war. The French had fielded 100 in 1940, and were to field 20+ again just in France by the end of the war. In fact the largely forgotten minor allies, the Free Poles, the Free Italian combat Groups, the Brigades of Free Greeks, Belgians, Dutch, etc, and the South African divisions, the New Zealand divisions, and the Brazilian division, had between them outnumbered the total American commitment to combat in Europe before the last four months of 1944. Add in the British, Canadians and Free French, and the American commitment before mid 1944 looks rather less impressive than is justified by the hype.

I will even go as far as quoting the figures, taken mostly from John Ellis’ World War two - A Statistical Survey, with a little reference to the microfilm archives of the CCOS deployment figures. (Though I foresee problems with comparing apples and oranges, so please do not consider these numbers as more than a very rough calculation. Particularly as some units have to be estimates. The British Commonwealth uniquely deployed ‘independent armoured brigades’ with roughly the same tank strength as most American armoured division, or some German Panzer Corps, or Russian Tank Armies, which I have accepted in John Ellis’ category and loosely called ½ a division. The same goes for the Italian ‘combat groups’ which I have also ranked as half a division. Many Pacific islands were invaded by a couple of American Regiments, which again could be loosely considered ½ of a division. When I say ‘rough’ estimates, I really mean it.)

The United States divisions were ‘deployed overseas’ for a total of about 1,150 months. Of that: Infantry in Europe about 500, infantry in the Pacific 312, armour 158, marines 128, airborne 37 and cavalry 19… roughly. But ‘deployed overseas’ is a bit different from everyone elses ‘in combat’ definition. For instance US 82nd Airborne is listed in Europe for 19 months from July 1943 to May 1945, but it was out of combat more often than in during that time. By comparison the British 6th Airborne, which was also ‘in Europe’ for all those months, gets listed as actually being in combat for three operations – June - September 1944 for D-Day, December - January 1944 for The Bulge, and March 1945 for The Rhine - and only gets credited with 6 months in combat.

This sample is much worse in the Pacific, where more than 20 American divisions are listed as ‘in Pacific’ for several years, regardless that usually only one or two were actually fighting anywhere at any given time. 1st US Marine Division for instance, probably the hardest fighting US dicvision in the Pacific, is listed ‘in theatre’ for 37 months, August 1942 – August 1945: but apparently fought on Guadalcanal for about five months, then on Cape Gloucestor in New Britain between 26 December 1943 and 16 January 1944 (call it two months?); then on Pelelui for a month, and on Okinawa for three months. Total 11 months, or a bit less than 30% of time 'in theatre' actually in combat.

So compared to a grand total of 1,150 months ‘overseas’ for all American divisions of all types, make what you will of these numbers, all months actually ‘in combat’:

Infantry divisions - British 284 months in combat, Indian 282, Australian 183, Canadian 44, African empire troops 68, South Africa 33, New Zealand 35 (Commonwealth total 935 months in combat). Also Free French 75, Free Poles 34, Free Italians 28, Brazilians 10 and Free Czechs 6, + Greeks, Jews (Palestinian Jews), etc. (Total of minors 153+). Total of just the infantry divisions of the non American Western Allies comes to almost 1,100 months in actual combat. (Although the Americans come up with almost 500 months ‘in Europe’, and 312 ‘in Pacific’, it would be extraordinarly generous to suggest that the total number ‘in combat’ came to more than 60% of that. In real terms it is unlikely that the American total in combat came to half of everyone elses 1,100 months.)

How about armour? British armoured divisions/brigades 245 months ‘in combat’, Indian 18, Australian 25, Canadian 31, New Zealander 9, Free French 27, Free Poles 18, Free Czechs 6. (Total 379 months in combat.) American armoured divisions 158 months ‘in Europe’. Again, even being hugely generous, the American total ‘in combat’ is unlikely to be much more than a third of everyone elses.

(By the way I think the Australian and New Zealand numbers in the Pacific theatre are as woolly and questionable as the American ones, but their African/European numbers are definitely correct, and I think the point is adequately made.)
Total non-American Western Allies army troops in combat about 1,500 months. Somewhere between two and three times total American Army and Marines combined.

Now I am not suggesting that the Americans didn’t contribute. They contributed an awful lot. By the end of the war they contributed more fighting divisions than any one of these named nations (finally equalling the combined total of the reduced numbers of full strength units deployed by the British Comonwealth). But over the total course of the war the United Kingdoms of the British Isles alone had more divisions actually at the front for more combat months than the Americans, as indeed did the French Army before their collapse in 1940… In fact India and Australia combined probably put in more divisional combat months than the US, and throwing in either the South Africans, or the Canadians, or even the New Zealanders, let alone all of them, would make it a certainty. (The Americans should be grateful that the Poles collapsed within a few weeks in 1939, because otherwise they too would have contributed more to the total divisional combat effort in the war than the Americans in Europe too. 47 divisions/brigade groups for – lets give American style generosity and call it 2 months each in the 1939 campaign – plus 127 months later by British or Russian aligned forces thereafter, for a total of 221 months.)

[I would be really interested to see if anyone can provide good evidence against any of these numbers. There must be some other good sources out there?]

Nor am I suggesting that the war could have been won without the Americans… though the total troop numbers do make it seem a far closer concept than most pretend. (And I should note that the American ‘in theatre’ concept would make the comparisons ridiculous if it was equally applied to everyone else. More British and Indian divisions were deployed in Iraq and Iran and ready to go to Turkey in 1942 – just in case of the very real threat that the Germans would break through the Soviets at Stalingrad – than the Americans had ‘overseas’ that year, or indeed the next. If you added all the troops waiting for an invasion of Britian in 1940-41, or Ireland, or Iceland; or Cyprus in 1942, or Syria, or Persia, or India, or Madagascar, or Ceylon, or Australia or New Zealand: the British Commonwealth numbers ‘in theatre’ jump to over three times the total American time ‘overseas’.)

I am suggesting that total American contribution to ground combat is vastly exaggerated by most of the literature. Through the war as a whole it amounted to about a quarter of the Western Allied total all up. Until mid to late 1944, the American contribution was minimal, and could have been replaced with other troops. In Europe their contribution really became important starting in June 1944, and in Asia starting November 1944. (But by 1944 there were more French and Italian and Indian and Polish volunteers than could be trained and equipped, so an idle side thought is that perhaps a lot of this American manpower might have been more valuably deployed as an arsenal of democracy workforce from 1942 - 1945, rather than spending years in training as infantry divisions that only got into action in 1945?) It was not until the end of 1944 when the large majority of American divisions started to make their presence felt worldwide (well, Northern Europe and the Pacific at least, if still not the Mediterannean, Middle Eastern or mainland Asian theatre’s)… at about the time when the European battles were mostly won, when Germany was already falling apart, and when Japan was trying to get the Soviet Union to be a go between in surrender discussions.

As usual, the problem is beware of statistics. Impressive sounding numbers of divisions do not necessarily relate to an actual combat value, particularly if they are not often in action. In terms of contributing to winning the war Chinese ‘divisions’ were a joke, Russian ‘divisions’ were an exaggeration, and the vast majority of American divisions were too late to see fighting in the critical years – early 1942 to late 1944 – when the tide was turned.

21 comments:

  1. Great post, but there is no link to any post on Eastern Front casualties.

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  2. The Swedish government was responsible for the most iron ore the Nazis received. Kiruna-Gällivare ore fields in Northern Sweden were all important to Nazi Germany.

    These massive deliveries of iron ore and military facilities from Sweden to Nazi Germany lengthened World War II. Casualties of the war have been estimated at 20 million killed in Europe. How many of them died due to Sweden's material support to Nazi Germany, is not known.


    The Swedish drinking toast (skal) has a rather macabre background; it originally meant 'skull'. The word has come down from a custom practiced by the warlike and terrorist Vikings who used the dried-out skulls of their enemies as drinking mugs, with the evident advantage that the mug held a large quantity of mead and could be easily replaced.

    The Viking raids are remembered: Spanish-speaking mothers warn their children that if they do not behave, the Norwegian (el noruego) will carry them off.

    http://www.thoughts.com/raimo/case-sweden

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  3. Interesting, I would like to see a similar report on the the naval side of WWII.

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  4. Apples and oranges, as you say. An accurate picture would need to account for untrained formations, those ill equipped and a proper defintion for 'at the front' versus 'engaged in combat'. Britain surely had more Divisions formed but untrained and far from the front, than it had trained and equipped divisions in combat, prior to 1944.
    Personnel statistics aside, was not America's primary contribution to WW2 in equipment and money (loaned certainly).

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  5. Good point. 'untrained formations' though, really usually means those that have not experienced combat and thus fall over if the stress becomes too great. The US First armoured division (supposedly professional troops) at Kasserine fits this category just as easily as the Australian 8th division at Singapore or the British 2nd Armoured in Libya. Almost all troops need to be bloodied and hardened slowly if they are not to get into trouble.

    There are exceptions of course. The raw US 1st Marine divisions fought well at Guadalcanal, as did the brand new Australian 7th division at Tobruk. But certainly being thrown in the deep end against more experienced rivals leads to disaster more often than not… (ask the Americans at the Battle of the Bulge).

    Ill equipped is also problematical. The French army collapsed through lack of national willpower and commitment, not because it didn't have more and better tanks and artillery and fortifications than its opponents. Likewise the American army in Italy was still using obsolete 37mm anti-tank guns in 1945 (and thanking God when it captured some lorry loads of Panzerfaust), but still coping ok.

    I think this is another example of sheer numbers being irrelevant. Troops need time to develope slowly and build up experience just as do generals.

    (And yes, one of my sub points was that America was far more valuable as an arsenal of democracy than as a provider of troops for most of the war. In fact the battle of the Atlantic was practically won before America entered the war and gave the U-boats their second 'happy time', so you could even argue that the American entry to the war slowed down allied victory… I might even post on that at some stage.)

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  6. Mr. Davies, you seem to be suggesting that the British Empire carried the brunt of the war against Japan? On the one hand you go out of your way to point out how some American units were only in combat for certain months and yet you completely gloss over the fact the India/Burma front was basically stagnant from May 1942-February 1944 in which the only actual combat was the limited Arakan offensive and the even more limited 1st Chindit expedition. During this period was fought the battles of Coral Sea, Midway, Alutien Islands, Guadalcanal, Santa Cruz, Buna-Gona-Sananada, New Georgia, Bouganville, Tarawa, Cape Gloucester, and Kwajelain. All of which saw Americans in combat. And from the time of Feb, 1944-the end of the war when the Burma front did see significant combat operations the twin drives in the Pacific (which were overwhelmingly American) reached the doorstep of the Japanese home islands themselves. I can't see how anyone could look at these facts and say that the US played a subsidiary role in the war against Japan.

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  7. Umm, I don't think I said the US played a subsidiary role in the war against Japan. In fact the US NAVY played the single most important role in the war against Japan. (And I am afraid that the US Marines who did much of the ground fighting before late 1944 are part of the US Navy.)

    i am suggesting that the US ARMY played a lesser part in the war against Japan until late 1944 compared to the Australians, Indians, or certainly the Chinese. (Though not the US Army AIR FORCE, which was technically part of the Army, this post is specifically about ground troops... Though I might do the naval comparison someone asked for later...)

    I suggest you also consider the differences between quantity and quality. Theoretically the Chinese held the attention of five or six times as many Japanese divisions as did the Western Allies. But the elite Japanese troops that conquored the Phillipines and Malaya and the Netherlands East Indies and Burma and the rest were chewed up by those Western Allies while the lower grade troops in China sat around waiting to enter Soviet prison camps when the time came. (In fact the Soviets eventually deployed more ground troops in combat against the Japanese than the Americans too, but again against sitting ducks!)

    I did a post two years ago about how the masses of footsloggers on the Eastern front were less vital to the Germans than the high tech formations destroyed by the Western Allies that might interest you as a comparison. It was called The Numbers Fallacy, and it was dated March 8 2009.

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  8. Mr. Davies, you seem to be contradicting yourself a bit to me. First, in your initial post you made no distinction between army and marine troops. You merely said ground troops. While marines are a part of the navy they are by any definition ground troops. Second, you mention that it was 1944 before an entire American army was deployed in combat in the pacific in one operation while ignoring my point that the vast majority of Indian and British forces deployed in the Burma theatre were not involved in combat operations through the entire year of 1943. Therefore I don't see how the Indians can be said to have played a bigger part than the US Army. By my calculation 10 US Army divisions fought in the New Guinea campaign (not all at one time admittedly) in 1943 alone. In the case of the Chinese you say at one point that while they had huge numbers that tied up large numbers of enemy troops, they were also largely ineffective and fought against lower quality Japanese forces. Finally, we come to the Australians who certainly had more forces in the Southwest Pacific Theatre unitil 1944. However, I'm not sure by how large of a margin the difference was. I look foward to your response.

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  9. Perhaps I phrased that badly. I think it is amusing to note that the first hard fighting by US troops in both World Wars was by USN Marines (in Europe in WWI and the Pacific in WWII), but they were still certainly US ground troops.

    However this does not change the fundamental point. US ground troops were never more than a fraction of the forces facing Japanese troops, and never did more than a fraction of the fighting against Japanese troops.

    In pure numbers, the Chinese, the British Commonwealth (Britain, India, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, even African and Islander troops), and even the Soviets, put far more ground troops into the field against the Japanese than the Americans.

    In actual combat time, the only time that the Americans had more than two or three divisions actually fighting Japanese troops at a single time was when they finally got to the Phillipines in late 1944. Up until then the Americans never had more than a few tens of thousands of ground troops engaged.

    China might have been a moribund front, and Burma often only saw half a dozen divisions in action at a time over the three and a half year campaign, but both fronts tied down, and fought, far more troops than ever faced the Americans in any place prior to the Philipines. (And the Soviet blitzkreigs against the Japanese both before the Americans entered the war and in 1945 were on a scale impossible to match by seaborne invasion.)

    Still I think the Americans deserve a bone, which is why I point out that the 60 pus divisions of garrison troops in China and Manchuria were not as important to the Japanese as the 10 crack assault divisions that conquored the Philippines and Malaya and Burma and the Netherlands East Indies. These key troops were the ones taken out by the British in Burma, the Asutralians in New Guinea, and the Marines at Guadalcanal.

    As the war went on the Japanese lost the ability for effective attacks, and were increasingly sitting duck garrisons to be cleaned up. It was these sad remnants that the US (and Soviet and Indian) armies swept up in 1945, after the crack troops had been broken.

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  10. This is an interesting comparison and valid in many ways. One could argue about the changing points of reference (e.g. troops in combat vs garrison), but there is no question the general point is true to an extent.

    Taking this info is a bit dangerous IMHO because, in the Pacific for example, the US faced the bulk of the Japanese navy and air force and, in addition to providing the ground troops, had to build an air force and navy that could achieve absolute superiority there. In addition, not just being the 'Arsenal of Democracy', the US had to convey all the supplies, manpower, equipment plus foodstuffs for the combatants AND the civil populations of the Allies in the Pacific.

    So, while the US could have built a much larger force for ground combat without a doubt, although what use these would have had in the campaigns at the time (more replacements were needed, but could the US have really employed and USED 2-3 more divisions at Guadalcanal, Tarawa, etc.?) is really debatable. So, the Commonwealth maximized their contribution in the ground forces spheres, although the combat divisions were losing effectiveness as time went on at the end of the war. This was only possible because of the conscious decisionmaking and capabilities at the Allied conferences.

    I'm sure a different, more holistic analysis, would probably show a totally different conclusion assuming that these pieces actually say anything meaningful.

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  11. Saying anything meaningful is the point, isn't it? My idle speculation here is just to suggest that the more standard 'holistic analysis' doesn't usually reflect the reality of what actually happened.

    Bad films (Saving Private Ryan for instance) reflect ignorance by those who should know better as much as poor assumptions by the general population. In that film the assumption is that only the Americans contributed to the invasion, with the only reference to anyone else being along the lines of 'Montgomery hasn't even captured Caen… I knew he wasn't as good as people say'. Of course Montgomery was Allied land forces commander at the time, so the soldier talking was in Montgomery's Army Group, and had almost certainly seen and heard Montgomery explaining the invasion to his unit. Ie, the film reflects bad general knowledge, that has become so engrained that it managed to slip by even the supposedly competent historians who consulted on the film.

    IN fact this particular blog issue rose from one of those 'surely that can't be right' thoughts from reading such a poor set of assumptions, and I throw out the rough figures on how many troops were actually engaged where to stimulate some discussion. Hope it encourages you to do a bit of research of your own.

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  12. You have to remember the United States didn't enter the war until the end of 41 and then there was still the draft, training, and then you still needed to organize and transport the troops to the designated locations. Ground Troops are not like tanks or ships. Which can be made and put to work immediately.

    The other countries you mentioned were fighting for nearly 2 and half years before the US entered the war. I guess what you find surprising. I thought made perfect sense.

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  13. How were the Chinese, the British Commonwealth (Britain, India, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, even African and Islander troops), and even the Soviets doing before the US entered the war?

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  14. True, the United States expansion was not ready to go immediately. In fact it took much longer to get large numbers of US troops into actioin than it had in WW1 because of the problems with shipping. (Also in WW1 the forces were largely un-mechanised, and most of the US Armies heavy equipment - artillery, tanks, etc was made in Britain or France, so they didn't have to ship nearly as much.)

    But that just reinforces the point that pretending the US was carrying a lot of the load earlier than it was is foolish.

    In fact the idea that US forces played much of a role at all in 1942 is, as you say, laughable. but many, many commentators imply that by 1943 teh US army was playing a huge role. In fact it was late 1944, often not until 1945, before the US army played the major role on any front (and even then not on most of them).

    My issue is with people who overstate the case.

    (By the way the Soviets had only been fighting the Germans for about five months before the Americans joined up, not years. they fought Japan in 1939, Poland for a few weeks, Finland in 1940 for a few months, but only really got into the war during the German invasion in mid 1941.)

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  15. How were the others doing before Pearl Harbour?

    Well the point above about having to train troops and get them into action is well made. It took the British Empire/Commonwealth a couple of years to get 50 mobile and 50 static divisions put together. They started with 4 in France in 1939. They used a couple in Norway, a dozen in France, and half a dozen in Africa in 1940. They had over a dozen in action in North Africa, East Africa, Greece, Crete, Palestine, Syria, Iraq etc in 1941 (plus 30 odd awaiting invasion in Britain, Gibraltar, Malta, Cyprus, etc, that were seriously facing front line action).

    The Chinese had a theoretical 100 divisions (read weak battalions to brigades) available before Pearl Harbour. How many were in action at any time is highly contentious. But again the Chinese conflict was not part of the world war until Pearl Harbour, so counting them on the 'Allied' side before the Japanese were even considered to be on the Axis side is a bit tricky.

    The Soviets of course were on the German side between 1939 and mid 1941, so there is only the five months between Barbarossa and Pearl Harbour to estimate how much they contributed to the allied effort. They lost several million men during this period, and still had several million in the field in 1942 (and for the balance of the war - though notably they needed older men, many women, and even children, to flesh out combat formations by the end of the war).

    Of course the Poles had 35 odd divisions in action for a few weeks. The French had 70 available for months, and the Dutch and Belgians contributed another 30 odd for a few weeks (as did the Yugoslavs and Greeks at a later stage).

    So the percentages of who was doing most bounced frantically between weeks when it was France, to months of the British alone, to weeks when the Yugoslavs and Greeks were doing most of the fighting.... briefly.

    All in all it is much harder to do meaningful figures before it settles down into two large teams - Axis and Allies.

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  16. I just ran across your blog. Very interesting and informative, and you just heard that from a Yank who served in the US Army from 83 to 89. I have the impression that you do indeed appreciate the contribution and sacrifice of U.S. Forces in Europe and the Pacific during the Second World War. Especially the Yanks who fought alongside the valiant Aussies, and kept the Japanese out of Australia.

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  17. The more we get people like you, to rant your opinions how inferior Americans are ...lets' face it, that's what your blog is really about, and there are many who rant.
    The more you praise the USA.

    I think the GI's suffered more combat deaths than the UK. (from encyclopedia facts and figures of WW2)

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  18. Yes, I like a good rant. If you bother to read more of my blog you will find rants about politics, sociology, literature, economics, and technology. But I specialise in history, and although I rant about anyone who presents dubious perspectives on history (particularly Australian and British academics recently), there is a special place in my heart to rant about any perspective of history created by the ignorance of Holywood scriptwriters, and accepted uncritically by an even more ignorant general public. American history is in a class of its own in the west for being badly written and badly understood. (And it is simply more fun to shock the poor ignorant Americans who really don't understand their own history than the self righteous Australian and British historians who are consciously trying to distort ours.)

    As for your substantive point.

    The United States, with a population five times that of Britain, but only a fraction of that of the British Empire and Commonwealth, had many more men in action, and suffered many more casualties, than Britain, but not than the Empire and Commonwealth.

    On the point of whether those casualties were sensible, I have some doubts. I will comment on two.

    Getting a ton or two of bombs to the Bombers battle of Germany could be done in one of 3 ways. A Flying Fortress/Liberator in daytime, with huge numbers lost, and 12 or 13 casualties for each loss. A Lancaster at night, with a fraction of the losses, and only 6 or 7 casualties each time. Or in a Mosquito bomber, with a two man crew and only a handful of losses. The fact that American deaths from this campaign were greater than British and Commonwealth does not necessarily reflect any greater value to the war effort does it?

    Then comes deaths of land troops. British generals are often criticised for being too careful with the lives of their men because they knew they were a limited resource, whereas American generals are often criticised for being too casual with the lives of their men because they felt they had an advantage of numbers (and possibly a mass production mindset). But that is probably more of a matter of interpretaion.

    Personally I think that generals who had experienced the horrors and waste of World War 1 (British and French, Italian and even German) were far more careful with the lives of their men than generals who hadn't had much experience (American, Russian, Chinese and Japanese for instance).

    In fact, I would suggest that a heavy butchers bill is not necessarily a sign of productive tactics.

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  19. All very interesting reading - statistics and so forth, but once again only focusing on the Western Allied contribution to the war, and very little on the Russian contribution. While it is true that for instance the sizes of the German divisions on the Eastern Front were understrength for most of the time, one must not forget that that also applies to their sizes everywhere, especially from 1944 onwards, when they, and especially the Waffen SS divisions, were filled with non-German manpower, often ex Russian POW's and so forth as encountered by the Western Allies in Normandy.

    The fact remains, that to look at WW2 (or any war) in perspective, one also need to take into account the amount of manpower in uniform supplied by each country. While less than 10% of those actually see action and become battlefield casualties and or veterans, the rest contribute to the logistics, etc of those actually doing the fighting in the front line.

    If taking these facts into consideration, it is quite clear that the majority of fighting of WW2 took part during 1941-1945 on the Eastern Front between the Germans, their allies and the Russians. Every other theater of war simply dwarfs in comparison to the amount of troops, material etc involved, and perhaps only the Pacific theater matches it in geographical size (or perhaps bigger). That includes the Chino-Japanese conflict.

    Hitler's support of Mussolini's disastrous debacle in North Africa was simply a waste of Axis manpower and recourses that could have been used more effectively on the Eastern Front, and proved of little value to Hitler's total war efford except providing propaganda material for both sides when the going was good.

    As such, it is doubtful whether the Western Allies, even with the help of the U.S., would ever have been able to defeat Germany and her Western allies on their own without the Russians contribution to the war. As Stalin summarized the situation towards the end of the war: "The British provided the time, The Americans the money, and the Russians the blood."

    One must also take in consideration that except for the Italian campaign, the Western Allies did very little (except for the bombing campaign and the destruction of the Luftwaffe in the West)to contribute to the destruction of Hitler's armies until D-day. D-Day did not come along until the Russians had already outmaneuvered the German forces at Kursk and driven them all the way back to Belarus and the Borders of Poland, and the destruction of Army group Centre during operation Bagration in August 1944 was a far more serious blow to Hitler's forces than the manpower they lost at Falaise. The only contribution the Western Allies could claim until then as far as land forces were concerned, was to tie down a quarter or so of Hitlers manpower to defend Italy, Norway and the Atlantic coastline.

    The lend-lease aid that the West provided to the Russians did not really came into effect until late 1943 after the Russians had already beaten the Germans with their own produced weapons and manpower, so save for ensuring that the Russians had adequate transport and fuel to speed up their eventual advance, those that reckon that the Russians could not have defeated the Germans without Western aid are suffering from a serious case of wishful thinking.

    Of the combatants fighting the Axis, the Russians provided half the manpower, and suffered the worst casualties, military and civilian. The Allies outnumbered the Axis 3 to 1 in uniform, and up to 80% of Germany's land forces were active on the Eastern Front at various stages.

    So for the question - "Whose troops actually did the fighting in WW2" (Allied side), the prize must go to the Russians when we talk Germany. Look at the statistics - that proofs it - period.

    Japan is another matter and here your argument may have some value.

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  20. I'm not certain as to your fixation on comparing divisional units and somehow correlating the quantitative and qualitative variables of these units with a very, very broad brush. I will not attempt to defend Hollywood, as their depictions of any event are uniformly flawed, exaggerated or fictionalized [editorial comment]. I'm not certain as to your notional intent, other than to somehow diminish the role of the U.S. in the defeat of the Axis. Question;
    how did you account for the U.S. Army forces in the Philippines from Dec. 8, 1941 through the fall of Corregidor (May 7, 1942 the terminal date for U.S. resistance)? With the exception of Marines who defended Wake Island, U.S. Army forces in the Philippines engaged in ground combat prior to formations from the U.S. Marine Corp. How did you account for the significant numbers of Philippine divisions? In 1941 Philippine composed units were part of the U.S. Army and from an American Commonwealth nation. Additionally, Philippine forces saw significant combat in the liberation of their homeland still part of a U.S. territory. A point for consideration is U.S. casualties that would have occurred had the Japanese home islands been taken by conventional forces. The divisions of U.S. Army formations created in 1944-45 and units transferred from the ETO would have been significantly if not entirely U.S.and yes, I know the Soviet Union took (and still holds) a few undefended islands in N.Japan. Your analysis needs a well defined nexis or as I have done, you can go off into many what ifs.

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